Cutter / Contest Diet or lean bulker

[Eleven11]

I personally believe everyone responds different to "dieting" and I have too trained with more then a couple Olympia competators back in the 90's. dieting was a bit different back then but the goals were the same.my take is you cant get enough or too much protien per meal and there has NEVER been any scientific studies done that conclude the body can not digest more then 50g of protien per meal (not suggesting you are saying this but just putting it out there) if you can get 100g of protien a meal,its that much better(trust me, Olympia competators are getting atleast that much a meal, upwards of 8-10lbs of lean meat a day....you do the math), as for carbs,everyone reacts different to carbs, some can cut at 800g a day while others need keep it below 400g/day and fat while essential dont go too crazy with it. you suggested its ok to eat butter? I dont know about that.you also go out and drink on the weekends, while your rum and diet coke has only 60cal,I am sure you have more then one, they add up as empty calories and even more important the alcohol slows down your matabolism, this is counter productive and not good/smart advice. your diet info is flawed and while a general guidline for the beginner,definately not for the advanced or professional.

just my opinion but what do I know,I only been in this game since 1987.

goodluck

Well I made it clear that I dont compete and if a paycheck was involved then the drinking would be out and more than likely butter would be replaced with flaxseed oil, at least near the end. But fat is fat and while flaxseed is obviously better for you health wise as far as cal intake your body doesnt know the difference. Im 48 and get very lean on this diet and have pics in the members pic sec to prove, can imagine how much more shreaded I could get if $ was involved but like I said Im not going to cut certain things out (partying/flavor) when no $ is involved.
While metabolisms vary most guys cut there carbs way to low way to early and risk being flat by contest time. bodyfat is burnt by reducing cals/carbs slowly over a period of time to keep metabolism peaked and by adjusting cardio as needed. Carbs keep muscles full and are needed.
This diet was used by IMO the best O contender in the early 90's and he should've won at least 2 IMO, so if good enough for him then Im fine with his advise.
This was put up for guys to use if wanted or adjust as needed. For guys that say they cant get cut on 200g of carbs per day, you can, and didnt read the whole diet as by the end you are cleary under 100g and if doing cardio properly you WILL burn fat and thats the goal is burning fat not just losing weight.........................11

 

[love2pump]

Touche Sir.

 

[DEVLDOG]

Well I made it clear that I dont compete and if a paycheck was involved then the drinking would be out and more than likely butter would be replaced with flaxseed oil, at least near the end. But fat is fat and while flaxseed is obviously better for you health wise as far as cal intake your body doesnt know the difference. Im 48 and get very lean on this diet and have pics in the members pic sec to prove, can imagine how much more shreaded I could get if $ was involved but like I said Im not going to cut certain things out (partying/flavor) when no $ is involved.
While metabolisms vary most guys cut there carbs way to low way to early and risk being flat by contest time. bodyfat is burnt by reducing cals/carbs slowly over a period of time to keep metabolism peaked and by adjusting cardio as needed. Carbs keep muscles full and are needed.
This diet was used by IMO the best O contender in the early 90's and he should've won at least 2 IMO, so if good enough for him then Im fine with his advise.
This was put up for guys to use if wanted or adjust as needed. For guys that say they cant get cut on 200g of carbs per day, you can, and didnt read the whole diet as by the end you are cleary under 100g and if doing cardio properly you WILL burn fat and thats the goal is burning fat not just losing weight.........................11

Looking good bro,esp for 48.........dont know who you know that competed In the O back in the 90's but I trained often with Al Q Gurley and Jaun Martinez. Al Q had one of the best physiques ever,real shame he blew both his knees out and that pretty much ended his career before it really took off. high carb diets were definately the fad back in the late 80's and 90's. guess "Pumping Iron"may have had something to do with it,watching Arnold chow down on baked potatoes,pasta and fruit..ha

 

[zazza51382]

this is great im bout to start it this monday coming up, thanks alot for the post.

 

[Eleven11]

this is great im bout to start it this monday coming up, thanks alot for the post.

Good luck with it, post up any ?'s................11

 

[Black_Mags]

ELEVEN, help me out here and go into detail and ill paypal you a couple dollars dude.


Im 230 right nowand i got some major questions, and i would really really appreciate some help because ive never cut before in my life!!! Ive got a lot of mass and dont want to lose it!

m just looking to drop bodyfat and pretty much get shredded up.

right now this is my macros 267gP / 53gF / 159gC / 2215cal
^^^made up from 80% whole food, ie: chicken, eggs, lean red meat, oats.

So i just have a couple have questions and would really appreciate some help:

Should I take down the volume in the gym?? For example I will hit shoulders with 22+ sets sometimes, but only 5-6 to fail. I figured it would be logical to drop the volume considering im just trying to keep what muscle I have, not trying to build new. I still lift pretty heavy and on failure sets its between 6-8. Ive never been one for above 12 reps.

I do HIIT evernight now- 5 minute warmup, 11 minutes of actual hiit, 5 minutes cooldown. I like hiit a lot more over liis, liis i feel like i get nothing out of it, is boring as ****, and i look flat all day after even with carbs.

BUT, I have been losing weight a bit too fast, down 22 pounds from june 9th, but i feel it was initally waterweight and fat, because the mirror doesnt lie to me. So should I up my calores a little bit, or cut back a little ont he cardio??


^^those are my main concerns, if anyone else would like to adress something im all ears. Ive never ever cut before so I want to soak in some new knowledge, and ill do whatever it takes through diet training or whatever. this **** is my life.


Now, people have told me recently hiit only twice a week, the rest should be liis..so i have no problem doing cardio 6x a week, and i can do it twice on an empty stomach as well

What should my hear rate be when performing liis, whats the maximum time i should go for on an empty stomach, and in the evening with food eaten 2 hours before?

THe only drugs im on is 500mg/test a week. Everything else i want to do through diet and training. If i need to i will add in drugs later on.


thanks in advance 11!!!!!

 

[Eleven11]

ELEVEN, help me out here and go into detail and ill paypal you a couple dollars dude.


Im 230 right nowand i got some major questions, and i would really really appreciate some help because ive never cut before in my life!!! Ive got a lot of mass and dont want to lose it!

m just looking to drop bodyfat and pretty much get shredded up.

right now this is my macros 267gP / 53gF / 159gC / 2215cal
^^^made up from 80% whole food, ie: chicken, eggs, lean red meat, oats.

So i just have a couple have questions and would really appreciate some help:

Should I take down the volume in the gym?? For example I will hit shoulders with 22+ sets sometimes, but only 5-6 to fail. I figured it would be logical to drop the volume considering im just trying to keep what muscle I have, not trying to build new. I still lift pretty heavy and on failure sets its between 6-8. Ive never been one for above 12 reps.

I do HIIT evernight now- 5 minute warmup, 11 minutes of actual hiit, 5 minutes cooldown. I like hiit a lot more over liis, liis i feel like i get nothing out of it, is boring as ****, and i look flat all day after even with carbs.

BUT, I have been losing weight a bit too fast, down 22 pounds from june 9th, but i feel it was initally waterweight and fat, because the mirror doesnt lie to me. So should I up my calores a little bit, or cut back a little ont he cardio??


^^those are my main concerns, if anyone else would like to adress something im all ears. Ive never ever cut before so I want to soak in some new knowledge, and ill do whatever it takes through diet training or whatever. this **** is my life.


Now, people have told me recently hiit only twice a week, the rest should be liis..so i have no problem doing cardio 6x a week, and i can do it twice on an empty stomach as well

What should my hear rate be when performing liis, whats the maximum time i should go for on an empty stomach, and in the evening with food eaten 2 hours before?

THe only drugs im on is 500mg/test a week. Everything else i want to do through diet and training. If i need to i will add in drugs later on.


thanks in advance 11!!!!!

Well looks like your doing a shitload of reps. Personally Id stick with something low rep/high weight like the 5x5 program.

IMO your cals are way to low. At 230lbs you need 3450cals just to maintain your current bodyweight and thats not counting the high intensity training your doing. Also at 230lbs you need at least 345g per day of protien so your way low just there. At your weight using a 40/40/20 pro/carb/fat ratio you'd take in 345g pro. 345g carbs. 76g fat per day spread out over 5-6meals (I prefer 6) Personally Id start at this cal intake and ratio then follow my diet in this sticky by reducing carbs only every 3wks as Ive layed out. This will allow you to maintain your muscle mass while SLOWLY burning bodyfat.
Now if your dead set on what your doing now then at least increase your protien intake but I really recommend you start from scatch.
Problem is most people pick a cal intake (usually way to low) and stay there, well your body is not going to just sit there while you starve, its going to go into survival mode and slow your metabolism. You may still lose weight but its going to be muscle as fat is the last thing your body wants to burn as fuel.
Thats why we keep protein and fat at a good level and slowly decrease carbs over a period of time. As long as protein is high muscle loss will be minimal and as long as fat intake is constant your body will burn it as fuel and not hold onto it for survival.
So my advice would be follow my diet to a T and decrease your training reps to low reps higher weight.
Another thing is when you 1st start this diet it may feel like your eating to much but after a wk or so that will change as your metabolism kicks into high gear and as you start lowering your carbs in 7-8wks you wont be thinking that at all, you'll be looking forward to your next meal .............11

 

[irish_2003]

this is a good post on diet here and believe it or not it's pretty simple to follow....it just looks like alot until you get into actually doing it.....this is pretty similar to what i do and am doing except i'm not sure i'll be sodium loading yet as i've never used it for a show before....about 4 weeks out i switch my meals to orange roughy,whiting fillets,albacore tuna and my carbs are low enough by then that the water starts to come out very very quick at that point......thanks for bumping this thread guys!

 

[Black_Mags]

Well looks like your doing a shitload of reps. Personally Id stick with something low rep/high weight like the 5x5 program.

IMO your cals are way to low. At 230lbs you need 3450cals just to maintain your current bodyweight and thats not counting the high intensity training your doing. Also at 230lbs you need at least 345g per day of protien so your way low just there. At your weight using a 40/40/20 pro/carb/fat ratio you'd take in 345g pro. 345g carbs. 76g fat per day spread out over 5-6meals (I prefer 6) Personally Id start at this cal intake and ratio then follow my diet in this sticky by reducing carbs only every 3wks as Ive layed out. This will allow you to maintain your muscle mass while SLOWLY burning bodyfat.
Now if your dead set on what your doing now then at least increase your protien intake but I really recommend you start from scatch.
Problem is most people pick a cal intake (usually way to low) and stay there, well your body is not going to just sit there while you starve, its going to go into survival mode and slow your metabolism. You may still lose weight but its going to be muscle as fat is the last thing your body wants to burn as fuel.
Thats why we keep protein and fat at a good level and slowly decrease carbs over a period of time. As long as protein is high muscle loss will be minimal and as long as fat intake is constant your body will burn it as fuel and not hold onto it for survival.
So my advice would be follow my diet to a T and decrease your training reps to low reps higher weight.
Another thing is when you 1st start this diet it may feel like your eating to much but after a wk or so that will change as your metabolism kicks into high gear and as you start lowering your carbs in 7-8wks you wont be thinking that at all, you'll be looking forward to your next meal .............11

ok thanks for that, could you go into the cardio questions a little bit for me as well?? Thats where im confused right now

and to be honest, im pretty sure i have a slower metabolism because at 3500 calories i was putting on a good amount of fat with the muscle, im pretty sure i could have done a lot cleaner bulk at 2800-3000 calories a day.

I started my diet at 3000 a day and worked down from there over the last month and this is where im starting to see some results. I dont do much shit during the day besides when i train or cardio so im not using any extra calories really. But im definatly going to lower my training volume but stick with heavy weights.

 

[Eleven11]

ok thanks for that, could you go into the cardio questions a little bit for me as well?? Thats where im confused right now

and to be honest, im pretty sure i have a slower metabolism because at 3500 calories i was putting on a good amount of fat with the muscle, im pretty sure i could have done a lot cleaner bulk at 2800-3000 calories a day.

I started my diet at 3000 a day and worked down from there over the last month and this is where im starting to see some results. I dont do much shit during the day besides when i train or cardio so im not using any extra calories really. But im definatly going to lower my training volume but stick with heavy weights.

Well you know your body but at 230lbs and 3500cals you shouldnt be putting on fat if your training hard. Bottom line is you know your self so find that cal intake that your comfortable with but make sure you increase your protein to 245g per day.
Cadio start with 3-4days per wk @30min then every 2-3wks increase min/days till your up to 45min and 5days wk. Now make your adjustments based on how your responding and how you look in the mirror but for most men this should be enough cardio along with your training......11

 

[Eleven11]

this is a good post on diet here and believe it or not it's pretty simple to follow....it just looks like alot until you get into actually doing it.....this is pretty similar to what i do and am doing except i'm not sure i'll be sodium loading yet as i've never used it for a show before....about 4 weeks out i switch my meals to orange roughy,whiting fillets,albacore tuna and my carbs are low enough by then that the water starts to come out very very quick at that point......thanks for bumping this thread guys!

I never really watched my sodium during the diet, I dont get carried away with it but its not till the final wk before the show that it really matters and thats when I start cutting it but not to low as to look flat.
Key IMO is to stay full looking while your cutting fat and skin is tightening around your muscle and so much of that is done in the final wks with carb loading/cutting then cutting your sodium then your water the final 2days.
Your show isnt till fall isnt it?? so you've got some time left right.........11

 

[irish_2003]

it's October 30th.....16 weeks,5 days from today

 

[Black_Mags]

Well you know your body but at 230lbs and 3500cals you shouldnt be putting on fat if your training hard. Bottom line is you know your self so find that cal intake that your comfortable with but make sure you increase your protein to 245g per day.
Cadio start with 3-4days per wk @30min then every 2-3wks increase min/days till your up to 45min and 5days wk. Now make your adjustments based on how your responding and how you look in the mirror but for most men this should be enough cardio along with your training......11

ok thanks 11

yeah i love busting my ass in the gym but i did like no cardio at all during that time lol. seriously 2 sessions in 15 months.

 

[Black_Mags]

Well you know your body but at 230lbs and 3500cals you shouldnt be putting on fat if your training hard. Bottom line is you know your self so find that cal intake that your comfortable with but make sure you increase your protein to 245g per day.
Cadio start with 3-4days per wk @30min then every 2-3wks increase min/days till your up to 45min and 5days wk. Now make your adjustments based on how your responding and how you look in the mirror but for most men this should be enough cardio along with your training......11

what should my heart rate be at during the sessions?


i aslo reconfigured my diet as well : 305gP / 46gF / 204gC / 2529cal~

took alot a lot of red meat and now ill be using mostly chicken breast and eggs

 

[8thangel]

Definitely gonna be giving this a try both for cutting and bulking. Seeing pics of the results you've gotten is enough to sell me 11!~

 

[Eleven11]

Definitely gonna be giving this a try both for cutting and bulking. Seeing pics of the results you've gotten is enough to sell me 11!~

Good luck but follow it to a T and give it time to work..................11

 

[broncos625]

Hey 11, just looking at your suggestions for the final week leading into a show. Quick question, what are your thoughts on diuretics? I was planning on using Aldactone 50mg twice daily beginning Thursday. Depending on how I look Sat morn, maybe another one then and if needed, another one a couple hours before night show. Thoughts? Appreciate any feedback.

 

[Eleven11]

Hey 11, just looking at your suggestions for the final week leading into a show. Quick question, what are your thoughts on diuretics? I was planning on using Aldactone 50mg twice daily beginning Thursday. Depending on how I look Sat morn, maybe another one then and if needed, another one a couple hours before night show. Thoughts? Appreciate any feedback.

I used lasix the final 3 days when I started sodium depleting. 20 mg 2 x day.
Gotta be careful with lasix, Heard Aldactone was safer but I've never used it.
3-4 days tops is what I hear and I drop 4lbs that final 3 days and pissing every 2-3 hrs it seemed. Also might wanna get some more thoughts on day of show. I know I was cramping easy and no way I could've did a show that day, One full flex and id of cramped my whole body up lol.
Remember a top ranked Pro in the 90's had to be carried off stage from cramps and got DQ'd.....................11

 

[broncos625]

I used lasix the final 3 days when I started sodium depleting. 20 mg 2 x day.
Gotta be careful with lasix, Heard Aldactone was safer but I've never used it.
3-4 days tops is what I hear and I drop 4lbs that final 3 days and pissing every 2-3 hrs it seemed. Also might wanna get some more thoughts on day of show. I know I was cramping easy and no way I could've did a show that day, One full flex and id of cramped my whole body up lol.
Remember a top ranked Pro in the 90's had to be carried off stage from cramps and got DQ'd.....................11

I'm going with Aldactone because last time when I used Lasix it has HORRIBLE. I felt like absolute shit....my friggen eyeballs were dry. Aldactone spares Potassium so in theory, cramping shouldn't be a big issue. So based on your schedule with the Lasix, sounds like I'm pretty much thinking the same thing, just with Aldactone instead. Appreciate it bro, always good to get advice from someone experienced.

 

[Eleven11]

I'm going with Aldactone because last time when I used Lasix it has HORRIBLE. I felt like absolute shit....my friggen eyeballs were dry. Aldactone spares Potassium so in theory, cramping shouldn't be a big issue. So based on your schedule with the Lasix, sounds like I'm pretty much thinking the same thing, just with Aldactone instead. Appreciate it bro, always good to get advice from someone experienced.

I heard same thing and now that Im out of lasix might not use it again and go with Aldactone. Former supplier told me same thing and it was safer it's just I had the lasix so figured Id use it up.
Good luck . LMK how it works for you ..............11