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  #1  
Old 11-17-2018, 11:14 AM
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mahbool38 mahbool38 is offline
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Default Hard recovery at 27yo

Hello Guys,

There is a long time that I dont take the time to write something there.
Today I really need your helps...
After years of steroids abuse like an asshole, I am in a bad position. I ever make PCT after cycle and took HCG during but I never took the time to recover between cycles... and always like an asshole I took high dose of AAS each time because I felt that my body never moove.
I end the PCT of my last cycle in may, and since I feel like shit. I go see an endocrinologist, but he cannot help me. The problem in France is that doctors are far from theses subjects, they dont understand.

This is my BW :

LH : 4.9ui/L (sounds good... )
Test : 6.2nmol/L (average between 8 and 29)
Prolactine : 7.7ųg/L
Estradiol : <16.5pg/ml
Cortisol 191nmol

My test level dont go up since june, it decrease even a little bit.

So my questions :
Do I have something to do to get back normal?
Does something in this BW can make me think I am steril?

Thank a lot to read me and sorry for my English hard To understand.
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2018, 02:17 PM
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You need a long PCT.

I would follow the protocol from Scally or Lipschulz.

its high doses of HCG for a long time.
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  #3  
Old 11-17-2018, 05:22 PM
northcarolina1970 northcarolina1970 is offline
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Ur test is very very low try clomid and low dose of nolvedex after 1 or 2 weeks of hcg if that doesnt work go with low dose trt 250 or 300 test long ester
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  #4  
Old 11-18-2018, 06:00 AM
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I agree with MK. you need a proper PCT . There's plenty of good pct protocols online I'd pick 1 and follow it to a tee.
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  #5  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:11 PM
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Hello Guys,

Many thanks for your replies.
I do some research, I woud like to be sure that you talk about this belofinger ????

Day 1-20 : 2000iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

My last cycle I was on 250ui E3D HCG during the cycle and something close to this pct on clomid and tamoxifen.

To have To honest I am so scary, my girlfriend start going to speak about child, I really want To get back To healthy condition. I hope that my LH level tell that I am ok for child even or I am not sure that it's the only factor.

Well if you guys think that this protocol is the best way I will try and cross fingers.

northcarolina1970, yes 200-300 test sound good, but before I have to make my better To an healthy father.


A lot of thanks for all your help.
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  #6  
Old 11-18-2018, 06:19 PM
northcarolina1970 northcarolina1970 is offline
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That protocol is fine in my own experience 500iu 1000iu max ever 2 or 3 days a very educated pro body builder told me excessive hcg desensitizes u may not wanna go higher then that plus hcg is supressive but at the same time it getts things primmed and ready to retart ur natural test levels i hope all works out well ive done a few post cycle just using light hcg thruout cycle then the laat two weeks hcg every 2nd day 500iu only then 2 weeks clomid and nolvedex then just.nolvedex and i always add igf 1 lr3 i really dont lose to much and my numbers go back within normall range 400 to 600 sometime higher depending on what supplements im taking im only a few years older then u around 30 been on and off for years and this works well fir me
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  #7  
Old 12-05-2018, 08:19 PM
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I ran test cyp for 6 months at low does bc I had been given clomid from an endo and, I filled my prescriptions on the clomid and saved it for the end of cycle and it took 3-4 months at 50mg/day clomid to get my sperm count and test levels back to “normal”, was able to get my wife pregnant. Give it time and some good PCT it’s a marathon not a sprint.
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  #8  
Old 12-05-2018, 09:38 PM
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Yeah man, just work the PCT (MK knows his shit, I know for sure) and most importantly, just give it time. You'll bounce back! Don't get discouraged!
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2018, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahbool38 View Post
Hello Guys,

Many thanks for your replies.
I do some research, I woud like to be sure that you talk about this belofinger ????

Day 1-20 : 2000iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

My last cycle I was on 250ui E3D HCG during the cycle and something close to this pct on clomid and tamoxifen.

To have To honest I am so scary, my girlfriend start going to speak about child, I really want To get back To healthy condition. I hope that my LH level tell that I am ok for child even or I am not sure that it's the only factor.

Well if you guys think that this protocol is the best way I will try and cross fingers.

northcarolina1970, yes 200-300 test sound good, but before I have to make my better To an healthy father.


A lot of thanks for all your help.
Dont forget the AI of choice is aromasin 25mg a day for days 1-45

Here is what Dr. Scally says about aromasin being AI of choice in the PCT phase:

Ok we cover this part, AI is also look from Dr Scally as part of a PCT. He said there is some evidence that adding Nolva to an AI does not increase the effectiveness of estro control therefore Nolva has no real advantage alongside an AI unless one is experiencing gyno. In addition that Nolva has shown to reduce IGF-1 and GH levels. During a cycle is not to worried about too much cause test increase IGF-1 levels on a dose dependant relationship. But for PCT is a diffrent story cause that can be a not very pleasent feeling at this point. His AI of choice is Aromasin during cycle and PCT as well for the simply fact on his conclusion that Aromasin does its job on the enzymes and those particular enzymes will longer function. A type II AI will compete with the aromatase enzyme and then eventually unbind from it and it will be active again, this can cause the undesirable estro bound.
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2018, 04:21 PM
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It won't work.

Throw in the towel.
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  #11  
Old 12-12-2018, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkpanthar View Post
It won't work.

Throw in the towel.
Don’t listen to that post ^ get some triptorelin and some HMG

I’m glad to help others even if they disrespect me and this board with rude comments.

Clean up your act Panther and show some decency and respect please.

Mack
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Last edited by Mack : 12-13-2018 at 06:20 AM.
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  #12  
Old 12-13-2018, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack View Post
Donít listen to that post ^ get some triptorelin and some HMG

Iím glad to help others even if they disrespect me and this board with rude comments.

Clean up your act Panther and show some decency and respect please.

Mack
I was serious...

Restarts do NOT work, usually.

I spent 5 years, thousands and thousands of dollars, and many plane tickets trying to figure out a restart...

Good luck, but it won't work, probably.
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  #13  
Old 12-13-2018, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkpanthar View Post
I was serious...

Restarts do NOT work, usually.

I spent 5 years, thousands and thousands of dollars, and many plane tickets trying to figure out a restart...

Good luck, but it won't work, probably.
The problem is that you spent all that time and money trying to figure it out.

if you had actually done what was suggested by a few of the docs with great experiences (already been listed), then you might have been recovered.

Also, what is recovered in your world?
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  #14  
Old 12-14-2018, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkpanthar View Post
...but it won't work, probably.
Now it’s a *probably*

Hang in there PP

I think you mean well, *probably*

;0)
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Last edited by Mack : 12-14-2018 at 02:59 PM.
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  #15  
Old 12-14-2018, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganKane View Post
The problem is that you spent all that time and money trying to figure it out.

if you had actually done what was suggested by a few of the docs with great experiences (already been listed), then you might have been recovered.

Also, what is recovered in your world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack View Post
Now it’s a *probably*

Hang in there PP

I think you mean well, *probably*

;0)
My advice is this:

Do NOT FUCKING blast HCG, like all the dumbasses @ OLM will tell you.

You're gonna desensitize your leydig cells forever, and immediately.

If you're really serious about a recovery, you need to run HGH WHILE you do it. Go super LOW dosage clomid, for a super long time. And then NEVER touch AAS again.

EVEN IF THIS WORKS, however, THE THREAD POSTER WILL FUCK IT UP BY RUNNING AAS AGAIN, I PROMISE; I'D BET MY FUCKING LIFE.
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  #16  
Old 12-14-2018, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkpanthar View Post
My advice is this:

Do NOT FUCKING blast HCG, like all the dumbasses @ OLM will tell you.

You're gonna desensitize your leydig cells forever, and immediately.

If you're really serious about a recovery, you need to run HGH WHILE you do it. Go super LOW dosage clomid, for a super long time. And then NEVER touch AAS again.

EVEN IF THIS WORKS, however, THE THREAD POSTER WILL FUCK IT UP BY RUNNING AAS AGAIN, I PROMISE; I'D BET MY FUCKING LIFE.
"I'D BET MY FUCKING LIFE." So what if he don't? Are you going to kill yourself? Why do you have to say FUCKING so much? And you know more than everyone on OLM? You cant even spell Panther.
Even if you did all those things you said you did, its still a Logical Fallacy called "An Appeal to authority" even though you aren't an authority on the subject.
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Old 12-14-2018, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganKane View Post
The problem is that you spent all that time and money trying to figure it out. Saying and doing are not the same thing. Why all the plane tickets...


Also, what is recovered in your world?
.
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  #18  
Old 12-15-2018, 06:05 PM
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"I'D BET MY FUCKING LIFE." So what if he don't? Are you going to kill yourself? Why do you have to say FUCKING so much? And you know more than everyone on OLM? You cant even spell Panther.
Even if you did all those things you said you did, its still a Logical Fallacy called "An Appeal to authority" even though you aren't an authority on the subject.
Are you on meth? Were you when you wrote that? Do you have any teeth, left? Did you have a father figure growing up?

WTF did you just TRY To say to me?

Kill yourself, thanks
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  #19  
Old 12-15-2018, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkpanthar View Post
My advice is this:

Do NOT FUCKING blast HCG, like all the dumbasses @ OLM will tell you.

You're gonna desensitize your leydig cells forever, and immediately.

.
There is a lot going on in this thread, but the quoted post is 100% correct about the above. There are common and numerous causes for the secondary hypogonadism caused by ababolic steroid use. This is a complicated topic and has no simple answer is it involves the relationships of test/est/progest/19-nors, and how they relate to various AIs and SARMS, especially in the setting of hcg.

Having said that, high doses of hCG can absolutely cause primary hypogonadism from leydig cell desensitization, which is arguably much more permanent and difficult, if not impossible to treat.

I would not personally recommend ever going past 500-750 iu of hcg. I have great respect for some of the old steroid and pct protocols, but is think that some of them are outdated.

Not flaming anyone- and happy to discuss this in the future.

Just my 2 c,

- hungry
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Old 12-16-2018, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HungryEctomorph View Post
There is a lot going on in this thread, but the quoted post is 100% correct about the above. There are common and numerous causes for the secondary hypogonadism caused by ababolic steroid use. This is a complicated topic and has no simple answer is it involves the relationships of test/est/progest/19-nors, and how they relate to various AIs and SARMS, especially in the setting of hcg.

Having said that, high doses of hCG can absolutely cause primary hypogonadism from leydig cell desensitization, which is arguably much more permanent and difficult, if not impossible to treat.

I would not personally recommend ever going past 500-750 iu of hcg. I have great respect for some of the old steroid and pct protocols, but is think that some of them are outdated.

Not flaming anyone- and happy to discuss this in the future.

Just my 2 c,

- hungry
YES,
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Old 12-16-2018, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkpanthar View Post
YES,
Dude... Its spelled "PANTHER" not "panthar". I did a search and found your pictures and you dont look like you have ever been in a gym. You are an outright weirdo. No one wanted to see that picture of you without clothes on you creep, lol.


And you have spent THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of $$$$ and how many airplane tickets trying to get your little balls to work again? You're so retarded you cant even fabricate a believable lie.

Last edited by Destructos : 12-16-2018 at 12:10 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #22  
Old 12-16-2018, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by HungryEctomorph View Post
the quoted post is 100% correct about the above.

This is a complicated topic and has no simple answer is it involves the relationships of test/est/progest/19-nors, and how they relate to various AIs and SARMS, especially in the setting of hcg.


Just my 2 c,

- hungry
If it is 100% correct, you should have no problem, citing your work.

The first google search I came up with Leydig cell desensitization by human chorionic gonadotropin does not occur in the human fetal testis.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4008604

Then there is this: http://www.totrevolution.com/hcg-hum...ing-need-know/ Maybe not that reputable but I bet they can spell "Panther" hCG has been clinically proven to restore fertility in men undergoing TRT.


I'm going to dig around a bit more.

Last edited by Destructos : 12-16-2018 at 12:36 PM.
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  #23  
Old 12-17-2018, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkpanthar View Post
My advice is this:

Do NOT FUCKING blast HCG, like all the dumbasses @ OLM will tell you.

You're gonna desensitize your leydig cells forever, and immediately.

If you're really serious about a recovery, you need to run HGH WHILE you do it. Go super LOW dosage clomid, for a super long time. And then NEVER touch AAS again.

EVEN IF THIS WORKS, however, THE THREAD POSTER WILL FUCK IT UP BY RUNNING AAS AGAIN, I PROMISE; I'D BET MY FUCKING LIFE.
Shut the fuck up you idiot.
You are so clueless you shouldnt be allowed to post.

Why dont you try to dispute your bullshit with the leading docs in the industry. They totally disagree with you and they got the research to back it.
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  #24  
Old 12-17-2018, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HungryEctomorph View Post
There is a lot going on in this thread, but the quoted post is 100% correct about the above. There are common and numerous causes for the secondary hypogonadism caused by ababolic steroid use. This is a complicated topic and has no simple answer is it involves the relationships of test/est/progest/19-nors, and how they relate to various AIs and SARMS, especially in the setting of hcg.

Having said that, high doses of hCG can absolutely cause primary hypogonadism from leydig cell desensitization, which is arguably much more permanent and difficult, if not impossible to treat.

I would not personally recommend ever going past 500-750 iu of hcg. I have great respect for some of the old steroid and pct protocols, but is think that some of them are outdated.

Not flaming anyone- and happy to discuss this in the future.

Just my 2 c,

- hungry
There are several doctors with plenty of research in this field that totally disagree with you.

How long have you been a doctor?
How much personal research have you done?
How many people have you personally treated and what has the success rate been?
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  #25  
Old 12-17-2018, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganKane View Post
Shut the fuck up you idiot.
You are so clueless you shouldnt be allowed to post.

Why dont you try to dispute your bullshit with the leading docs in the industry. They totally disagree with you and they got the research to back it.
Your picture is a white trash cocksucker, on his way to a klu klux clan rally.

I have more authority on this issue than ANY person in the HISTORY of Outlawmuscle. So how about you post pics or shut up? Srsly go fuck yourself. The endocrine system is extremely complex and getting it back online requires patience, not the heavy handed retardation of the majority of ppl on OLM.

"If I were you, I would BLAST HCG bro. Maybe like 10,000 ius per day for a month."

That won't work.

PS I've met with ALL the leading doctors in the industry you inbred white trash trump voting neanderthal. Michael Schally. John Crisler. Mayo Clinic. Suck my dick, hard.

PPS "If I were you I would hit the triptorellin. The HMG. And you're gonna neeed to BLAST really high dosages. That's what Iwould do!" Fucking retard, please kill yourself.

PPPS No srsly kill yourself, advice from people like you is downright dangerous. Please kill yourself. You're a parasite.

PPPPS No srsly, pull a Pete Davidson and REALLY kill yourself It's retards like you that get people HURT.
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Last edited by pinkpanthar : 12-17-2018 at 11:36 AM.
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