Mine came back 1.30 I know it's in with in range but right now slowing down protein intake for awhile and drinking more water if you guys have any other suggestions I apperciate it. Haven't been getting much sleep as well. My kidney doctor wasn't to worried but would like to see it alittle lowerr then it is now. I'm currently taken amino nac and tudca for the liver. Thanks guys love all of you
Creatine level
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TenMan
Donating Member
I could write a book on the various blood markers for kidney disease, but I'll treat keep this as short as possible.
Bodybuilding is such a niche "sport" that doctors and specialists rarely encounter a "real" bodybuilder. They do not understand the lifestyle or how to interpret the blood numbers. The pertinent kidney marker ranges (BUN, creatinine, GFR, creatinine kinase, and so on) are developed and based on bloodwork from the typical couch potato who does I nothing but eat, sleep, and work. Even the Cystatin C blood test, which is said to be diet independent, is variable (wrong) 20 percent of the time by up to 30%!
My bloodwork results on 8/25/2023 were:
BUN = 40
Creatinine = 2.49
GFR = 28
The doctor called me in a panic telling me that I was in Stage 4 kidney failure and probably needed to have dialysis performed in the next week. I told him, "That seems very odd because I feel 100% perfect and just got home from the gym after performing a " Mr. America" workout."
See, here's the culprit: GFR is calculated from the creatinine value. The higher the creatinine value, the lower the GFR value...I was in the middle of loading creatine monohydrate when the blood was drawn... BOOM! Even eating a steak dinner the night before blood is drawn will throw off the creatinine result. BUN measure nitrogen in the blood stream. Eat a high protein diet and your BUN will he high(er).
Every other number in my bloodwork was completely normal, as well as, micro analysis of my urine, so I was highly skeptical of the KD diagnosis, so I read every article I could find and did not cherry-pick the articles that fit my narrative.
I'm not saying to throw caution to the wind, but as I said earlier, doctors don't know much about a bodybuilders blood chemistry. Read the following article, it is just one of many, others come from the AMA and NIH and basically say the same thing.
www.t-nation.com
Thanks, TenMan
Bodybuilding is such a niche "sport" that doctors and specialists rarely encounter a "real" bodybuilder. They do not understand the lifestyle or how to interpret the blood numbers. The pertinent kidney marker ranges (BUN, creatinine, GFR, creatinine kinase, and so on) are developed and based on bloodwork from the typical couch potato who does I nothing but eat, sleep, and work. Even the Cystatin C blood test, which is said to be diet independent, is variable (wrong) 20 percent of the time by up to 30%!
My bloodwork results on 8/25/2023 were:
BUN = 40
Creatinine = 2.49
GFR = 28
The doctor called me in a panic telling me that I was in Stage 4 kidney failure and probably needed to have dialysis performed in the next week. I told him, "That seems very odd because I feel 100% perfect and just got home from the gym after performing a " Mr. America" workout."
See, here's the culprit: GFR is calculated from the creatinine value. The higher the creatinine value, the lower the GFR value...I was in the middle of loading creatine monohydrate when the blood was drawn... BOOM! Even eating a steak dinner the night before blood is drawn will throw off the creatinine result. BUN measure nitrogen in the blood stream. Eat a high protein diet and your BUN will he high(er).
Every other number in my bloodwork was completely normal, as well as, micro analysis of my urine, so I was highly skeptical of the KD diagnosis, so I read every article I could find and did not cherry-pick the articles that fit my narrative.
I'm not saying to throw caution to the wind, but as I said earlier, doctors don't know much about a bodybuilders blood chemistry. Read the following article, it is just one of many, others come from the AMA and NIH and basically say the same thing.
The Bodybuilder's Guide to Blood Work
Why Your Doctor Thinks You’re Dying Why Your Doctor Thinks You’re Dying I’m going to venture a guess about what happens when you, a weight lifter, goes to the doctor to get a physical. I’m betting that you almost always get a follow-up call from your doctor telling you that one or more of...
www.t-nation.com
Thanks, TenMan
Thanks ten and I'll pray for you. Your health concerns me and I hope you get the help you deserve. Your last post when you said you had copd symtoms made me worried. Please get help your a nice guy and deserve to be around for along time. Look into stem cell it might help your kidneys very least astraglus has helped people with kidney problems
TenMan
Donating Member
Now, the rest of the story:
So, after the doctor called me in a panic about the test results, he ordered another blood test to verify the results. At that point, I thought that it would be best to stop the creatine loading, stop supplemental glutamine, reduce protein intake, and stop all vitamins. I ended up having three (3) blood tests total, that's when I wizened up and started reading everything possible concerning kidney markers. See the results below...note the dates.
8/25/2023
BUN = 40
Creatinine = 2.49
GFR = 28
8/28/2023
BUN = 35
Creatinine = 2.16
GFR = 34
10/9/2023
BUN = 24
Creatinine = 1.58
GFR = 49
GFR calculated using Cystatin C = 58
Further micro analyses of random urine tests were 100% perfect.
I think it's quite obvious what is going on here. Note that it can take up to two (2) months to completely eliminate supplemental creatine from the body.
Coincidentally, I saw my Urologist for my six (6) month check up for known kidney stones. My renal ultrasound results were consistent with a man of 64 years old. The stones haven't increased in size either. I showed the Urologist my blood test(s) results to him and told him that I was a bodybuilder, and in a nutshell he said, "Oh, yeah, bodybuilding causes all kinds of troubles, I recommend stopping it altogether." I said, "I have one burning question, if kidney disease can't reverse itself, why is it reversing itself?" At that point, he started stammering and stumbling, "Uhhhh...I only deal with the physical aspect of the renal system, not the chemistry." In my head I'm thinking, "You've been a Urologist for thirty-five (35) year's and that's the best that you can come up with?"
So, that's where the story ends. I'm done going down these medical rabbit holes when I can clearly see what is going on.
Thanks, TenMan
So, after the doctor called me in a panic about the test results, he ordered another blood test to verify the results. At that point, I thought that it would be best to stop the creatine loading, stop supplemental glutamine, reduce protein intake, and stop all vitamins. I ended up having three (3) blood tests total, that's when I wizened up and started reading everything possible concerning kidney markers. See the results below...note the dates.
8/25/2023
BUN = 40
Creatinine = 2.49
GFR = 28
8/28/2023
BUN = 35
Creatinine = 2.16
GFR = 34
10/9/2023
BUN = 24
Creatinine = 1.58
GFR = 49
GFR calculated using Cystatin C = 58
Further micro analyses of random urine tests were 100% perfect.
I think it's quite obvious what is going on here. Note that it can take up to two (2) months to completely eliminate supplemental creatine from the body.
Coincidentally, I saw my Urologist for my six (6) month check up for known kidney stones. My renal ultrasound results were consistent with a man of 64 years old. The stones haven't increased in size either. I showed the Urologist my blood test(s) results to him and told him that I was a bodybuilder, and in a nutshell he said, "Oh, yeah, bodybuilding causes all kinds of troubles, I recommend stopping it altogether." I said, "I have one burning question, if kidney disease can't reverse itself, why is it reversing itself?" At that point, he started stammering and stumbling, "Uhhhh...I only deal with the physical aspect of the renal system, not the chemistry." In my head I'm thinking, "You've been a Urologist for thirty-five (35) year's and that's the best that you can come up with?"
So, that's where the story ends. I'm done going down these medical rabbit holes when I can clearly see what is going on.
Thanks, TenMan
TenMan
Donating Member
Hahaha! Not so much Mack, but I'm running out of time and I want to do one more show before I'm pushing up daisies and not weights!
manwill67
Well-known member
It looks like you concluded creatine was the culprit. Do you think it's necessary to drop glutamine, high protein and vitamins going forward, or is it enough to drop creatine?
TenMan
Donating Member
Actually, after the Urologist visit, I went back on all the supplements (full time) except for the vitamins. I cut them back to every other day. I've always followed Vince Gironda's principals and nutritional philosophy (about 75% of it anyway). As far as vitamins go, Vince advocated three (3) days on, three days off, so I arbitrarily decided to just go every other day.