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  #26  
Old 08-30-2009, 01:06 PM
gzam gzam is offline
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Excellent post, can you link the original thread? If you don't want to post it, can you PM it please?


Quote:
Originally Posted by stbizzle View Post
This thread is courtesy of a knowlegdable bro on another board. Hes discovered that for some people that have done long cycles, or high dosed cycles with the harsher compounds, HCG and clomid won't cut it, but the addition of HMG will bring one back to somewhat normal if not better. enjoy!

By Cyphon:

HMG is typically used to treat infertility . Basically, long term use of HCG at doses of 1000 i.u. 3 or more times weekly causes suppresion or insensitivity of Luetinizing hormone (LH) and to some degree Follicle stimulating hormone (FSH).

Body builders who dont respond to the classic PCT schemes of low dose HCG and clomid for a few weeks will definitley have a hard time with recovery and may encounter depression, a lacking sexual drive, low testicular weight along with low semen/sperm volume.

HMG is Follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and luetinizing hormone (LH). This simply stimulates your natural test production and keeps HCG working optimally. Your sex drive and sense of well being come back more rapidly then with other treatmentsr as well as your potential for staying or becoming fertile.

Luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) are called gonadotropins because stimulate the gonads - in males, the testes, and in females, the ovaries. They are not necessary for life, but are essential for reproduction. These two hormones are secreted from cells in the anterior pituitary called gonadotrophs. Most gonadotrophs secrete only LH or FSH, but some appear to secrete both hormones.

As described for thyroid-simulating hormone, LH and FSH are large glycoproteins composed of alpha and beta subunits. The alpha subunit is identical in all three of these anterior pituitary hormones, while the beta subunit is unique and endows each hormone with the ability to bind its own receptor.

In both sexes, LH stimulates secretion of sex steroids from the gonads. In the testes, LH binds to receptors on Leydig cells, stimulating synthesis and secretion of testosterone. Theca cells in the ovary respond to LH stimulation by secretion of testosterone, which is converted into estrogen by adjacent granulosa cells.

As its name implies, FSH stimulates the maturation of ovarian follicles. Administration of FSH to humans and animals induces "superovulation", or development of more than the usual number of mature follicles and hence, an increased number of mature gametes.

FSH is also critical for sperm production. It supports the function of Sertoli cells, which in turn support many aspects of sperm cell maturation.

Diminished secretion of LH or FSH can result in failure of gonadal function (hypogonadism). This condition is typically manifest in males as failure in production of normal numbers of sperm. In females, cessation of reproductive cycles is commonly observed.

Elevated blood levels of gonadotropins usually reflect lack of steroid negative feedback. Removal of the gonads from either males or females, as is commonly done to animals, leads to persistent elevation in LH and FSH. In humans, excessive secretion of FSH and/or LH most commonly the result of gonadal failure or pituitary tumors. In general, elevated levels of gonadotropins per se have no biological effect.




Heres a quick study:
Ten typical cases of male eunuchoidism (two with anosmia) are reported. After administration of clomifene citrate to five patients, there is no change in blood levels of gonadotrophins in four cases; in the fifth, a small and transitory increase of LH is noted. The intravenous injection of LHRH (100 mug) to five patients induces an increase of serum LH in all cases and serum FSH in three cases. The initial site of the dysfunction is possibly hypothalamic with secondary gonadotrophic pituitary insufficiency. Among six patients anxious for paternity, prolonged treatment (for 36 to 98 weeks), with HCG (250-1 000 I.U. daily) +HMG (65-120 I.U. FSH daily) results in appearance of spermatozoa in the seminal fluid in five cases and a pregnancy was obtained in four cases. Comments are done upon methods of treatment."

"Ten typical cases of male eunuchoidism (two with anosmia) are reported. After administration of clomifene citrate to five patients there was no change in blood levels of gonadotrophins in four cases; in the fifth, a small and transitory increase of LH was noted. The intravenous injection of LHRH (100 mcg) to five patients induced an increase of serum LH in all cases and serum FSH in three cases. The initial site of the dysfunction is possibly hypothalamic with secondary gonadotrophic pituitary insufficiency. Among six patients desiring paternity, prolonged treatment (for 36 to 98 weeks), with HCG(1700-7000 I.U. weekly) + HMG (450-825 I.U. FSG weekly) resulted in the appearance of spermatozoa in the seminal fluid in five cases and a pregnancy was obtained in four cases. Methods of treatment are discussed."

"Although testosterone (T) therapy is sufficient for maturation and maintenance of secondary sex characteristics in hypogonadal men, gonadotropins are required for stimulation of spermatogenesis. Thirteen men with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism received treatment with hCG, followed in 12 by the addition of human menopausal gonadotropin (hMG). All initially had undetectable serum LH and FSH and low T levels and were azoospermic with small testes. During therapy, all achieved normal male levels of T. Twelve of 13 had marked and continuous increase in testicular volume. Three men had sperm in the ejaculate with hCG treatment alone. All but 1 patient developed sperm in their seminal fluid during combined hCG and hMG therapy. Two men achieved three pregnancies, and 2 more had semen that produced hamster oocyte penetration assays in the fertile range during the protocol period. Four of 5 who achieved sperm densities greater than 1 million/ml while receiving combined therapy maintained or increased sperm production while receiving continued hCG therapy after hMG was withdrawn. We examined the response to gonadotropin therapy of men who had received previous T therapy and those who had not. There were no differences in rapidity or degree of response, as assessed by rise in serum T, increase in testis volume, or maximal sperm density achieved. Multiple pituitary deficits and cryptorchidism were negative prognostic factors. In summary, the prognosis for successful stimulation of spermatogenesis in men with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism treated with hCG/hMG is good and not adversely affected by prior androgen treatment. Despite undetectable serum FSH levels, hCG treatment was sufficient to both initiate and maintain spermatogenesis in some patients."

HMG most commenly comes in 75 i.u. ampules. They work Sub-Q as well as I.M.

Whether your shut down hard or just looking for more effective PCT You should always begine with the lowest most effective dose and work from there.

My regimen was simple:

1000 I.U. HCG three times weekly
75 I.U. HMG Three times weekly
50mg clomid daily

Obviously many studies have shown a variation in HCG/HMG doses. I would always advise to start low. A fertility study used a protocol of 2500 I.U. HCG + 300 I.U. HMG two times per week.


Depending on your goals this treatment can last 1-2 years ( for fertility and total recovery). For Bodybuilders who simply want a quick PCT protocol they can run this 4 weeks.

Obviously if your planning on going back on a cycle in a short time this wouldnt be something youd wanna stay on for months.

I believe it still can be an effective short term PCT program and replace your existing protocol if you do plan on running cycles more than two times a year.

I shot the HCG and HMG on the same days with different stick. I used BA for both.

Results are spectacular. Increase in testicle size and weight. Increase semen output. The most important of all.......A sense of well being and normalcy.

I havent had time to research much but the stuff works and thats all you really need to know.
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  #27  
Old 10-07-2009, 02:38 PM
beanpolenb beanpolenb is offline
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Sounds like its worth a try for my upcoming tren cycle
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  #28  
Old 11-02-2009, 05:26 PM
joshb joshb is offline
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what source sells the hmg cheapest?
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  #29  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:12 PM
ironbiceps ironbiceps is offline
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Excellent post , where can i find HMG ?
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  #30  
Old 12-07-2009, 01:12 AM
dowork123 dowork123 is offline
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Both of you have been here since 2006 and are asking for sources, wow!
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  #31  
Old 12-07-2009, 08:00 PM
ironbiceps ironbiceps is offline
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Quote:
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Both of you have been here since 2006 and are asking for sources, wow!
yes i know my friend but i'm taking about ... Who's got the best brand? -
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  #32  
Old 12-16-2009, 09:41 PM
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This stuff seems pretty interesting. I've heard of it before but now have a reason to research it... off to google!
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  #33  
Old 12-18-2009, 07:00 PM
Bigshred Bigshred is offline
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Has anyone tried running HMG during cycle? If so what where the doses used?
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  #34  
Old 02-25-2010, 01:23 AM
jagdtiger1488 jagdtiger1488 is offline
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HMG has the advantage over HCG, as HMG acts as natural LH and FSH, in terms of its effect on the organism. HCG just acts as LH, and HCG use will negatively effect natural FSH production.

Advantage of HCG being that you can use a home prego test strip to detect HCG, thus ruling out the possibility of purchasing fake HCG.
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  #35  
Old 02-26-2010, 03:13 PM
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Breeze Breeze is offline
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I'm wondering what the lowest effective dose of HMG would be? Most of the studies I have read focus primarily on women. For male PCT I'm wondering/hoping that smaller doses will get the job done. 75iu every day for X amount of time is obviously a very expensive PCT. 5000iu of HCG can be preloaded into 10 500iu doses. 500iu every 3-4 days has proven to be effective for many of us, plus it's affordable. I'm curious to hear more feedback from those who have experimented with HMG enough to form opinions on how best to use it. My workout parter recently picked up 5 75iu amps and he will use it for his next PCT. He wanted to get more, but 5 was all he could afford. He plans on using 75iu every 3 days. He's about halfway through a 12 week cycle so it will be awhile before we find out how well this works or whether it works at all.
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  #36  
Old 11-19-2010, 12:13 AM
flynn flynn is offline
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old thread bro but while we're on the topic what would be your reason to use it? apart from helping sperm count on cycle and also to restore sperm count post cycle I don't think its worth the price... If your main goal is to get test levels(post cycle) back to normal then hcg and clomid/nova should do the job. I have used it at 75iu's for 15 days post cycle along with hcg and my recovery was no better than when I've just used hcg.

Last edited by flynn : 11-19-2010 at 12:19 AM.
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  #37  
Old 11-19-2010, 12:49 AM
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I have found the combo hcg hmg invaluable in preparation for pct. I have crossed completely to the darkside now....Blast/cruise so no more pct for me but when I used to cycle on and off i noticed a difference using 500iu hcg 2xweekly and 25iu hmg ed. I ran the hcg throughout and hmg the last 3 weeks of cycle before pct.

my experience
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  #38  
Old 11-19-2010, 02:01 PM
flynn flynn is offline
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wicked if you have the cash you might as well try it, its not going to do any harm but when I tried it I took 15x75ius and the HMG ended up costing more than the gear on the cycle and I didn't see any better results. But on the flip side of the coin I have read many posts with guys saying it worked really well....
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  #39  
Old 04-28-2011, 09:04 PM
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gettinbig1 gettinbig1 is offline
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great article
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