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  #26  
Old 09-09-2016, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bca21 View Post
Can't you just google since there a million of them and your the one who doesn't know?
I already did but couldnt find one that quantified the benefits with GH/T4 vs GH/T3.

So post up please.
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  #27  
Old 09-10-2016, 09:42 AM
bca21 bca21 is offline
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I already did but couldnt find one that quantified the benefits with GH/T4 vs GH/T3.

So post up please.
You are so naive... Did I say there is a article that a particularly towards rats taking hgh on cycle with t3 and t4 no I said the conversion of drug doses is different when comparing rats to humans... But I'm sure you'll see the hundreds of articles and claim there not credible because God him self did not post them. You are verynargumentive so I will just say your right, and everything you say is right as well. I bet your a ripped lean monster
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  #28  
Old 09-10-2016, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bca21 View Post
You are so naive... Did I say there is a article that a particularly towards rats taking hgh on cycle with t3 and t4 no I said the conversion of drug doses is different when comparing rats to humans... But I'm sure you'll see the hundreds of articles and claim there not credible because God him self did not post them. You are verynargumentive so I will just say your right, and everything you say is right as well. I bet your a ripped lean monster
Uh?
WTF?

I am naive since you posted some bullshit that was totally irrelevant.

Let me clarify what this is about, I am typing slow.

Its about the claim that T4 is better then T3 when using GH.
I stated I have yet to see something that quantifies what better means.
then Chriswhat posted a few article that I didnt think really responded to that.

THEN.. you came in with your posts that its millions of articles.
I told you I couldnt find one and asked you to post some.
Now you are calling me argumentative since you couldnt respond to your own claim.

Not really sure what you are after here.
its a very simple question to quantify the difference between T4 and T3 with GH.

If you have the answer feel free to post up, but no reason to be a dick about this.
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Last edited by MorganKane : 09-10-2016 at 01:56 PM.
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  #29  
Old 09-11-2016, 03:13 PM
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^ I got a chuckle after that.
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  #30  
Old 09-11-2016, 07:35 PM
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To bca21 or whatever, MorganKane is a very knowledgeable and intelligent member. He's not simply being argumentative. He also no jitterbug as you obviously are. I myself am satisfied that t4 goes well with HGH. Between the studies and anecdotal evidence showing that you lose muscle on t3 but not t4 I'm satisfied. But if you're going to claim something as fact you need to be prepared to back it up unless you are an acknowledged authority on the subject.
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  #31  
Old 09-11-2016, 08:26 PM
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I wouldn't call Morgan naive at all. He's one of few that helped me for years. I tried for along time to find studies as well. I have trouble finding the right stuff on the Internet at times. I think he was showing you in good faith that you have the studies from good sources.

Last edited by Resilient : 09-11-2016 at 08:31 PM.
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  #32  
Old 09-12-2016, 03:33 PM
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You guys all obviously took my post th wrong way. I was posting about the conversion of drug doses from rats to humans. Not about t3 t4 or hgh. I was simply talking about the dose conversions.....
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:41 PM
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Fair enough.
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  #34  
Old 09-12-2016, 04:26 PM
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You guys all obviously took my post th wrong way. I was posting about the conversion of drug doses from rats to humans. Not about t3 t4 or hgh. I was simply talking about the dose conversions.....
No big deal.

For me the issue is that everybody ran T3 with GH and it was good.
Then Anthony Roberts wrote an article. Its a pretty well written article but its still Anthony Roberts and everybody went to T4 with GH.

It got so bad that you see comments like "if you dont use T4 with your GH you are wasting it".

I have no idea whats better. I really would like to know how much better is better. Its little data that quantifies the difference.

Just curious. I havent used much AAS or GH in the last 1.5 years due to a blood clot. Just added 2iu of GH 5 days a week for now..

I am still an old fat asshole and I know I am an acquired taste
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  #35  
Old 09-12-2016, 04:32 PM
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Hey everyone, some cool guy posted a thread about 10ius/lethargy one thread below, you should check it out & tell me..him what you think..
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  #36  
Old 09-12-2016, 09:51 PM
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You guys all obviously took my post th wrong way. I was posting about the conversion of drug doses from rats to humans. Not about t3 t4 or hgh. I was simply talking about the dose conversions.....
yeah conversations through texts and email can get taking out of context all the time lol
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  #37  
Old 09-13-2016, 02:41 PM
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What I have always wondered is if t3 ADDS to your natural production or if it shuts down your production and replaces it with the dose your taking. For instance, is it like test were you take 200mg and you completely shut down all natural test and it's replaced by the dose of the drug... Or dose it add to your natural production? Reason I ask is because let's hypothically say you produce 20mcg of t3 (I know it's not that simple) and you get on hgh and take 15mcg of t3 thinking its helping but it is actually hurting you. Like taking 50mg of test for trt when your body naturally produces more than that??
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  #38  
Old 09-13-2016, 03:39 PM
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What I have always wondered is if t3 ADDS to your natural production or if it shuts down your production and replaces it with the dose your taking. For instance, is it like test were you take 200mg and you completely shut down all natural test and it's replaced by the dose of the drug... Or dose it add to your natural production? Reason I ask is because let's hypothically say you produce 20mcg of t3 (I know it's not that simple) and you get on hgh and take 15mcg of t3 thinking its helping but it is actually hurting you. Like taking 50mg of test for trt when your body naturally produces more than that??
Thats very intresting. My opinion it all comes down to your pituitary and how much it has been damaged over the years. Just like your thyroid. There are some guys that can get there girl pregnant on trt because of this and some can't. Like my self. As we all get older things don't work as well as they once did as we all know...I know a guy in there 60s whose natural and has a test level at 900s. Thyroid is a easy fix and not a hard thing to adjust if your Tsh is not in range or if your t3 or t4 is not. I think many people over think the thyroid and can just get blood work from a doctor and be put on to pills. I'm curious what others have to say but lots of this can be found out through blood work and adjusting slowly and retesting

Last edited by Resilient : 09-13-2016 at 03:49 PM.
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  #39  
Old 09-13-2016, 07:03 PM
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In my experience it shuts down natural production but it comes back fast for me. I do a two week on two week off system though.
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  #40  
Old 09-13-2016, 07:06 PM
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I'll put it this way my mom was on t4 for ten years and her doctor took her off for whatever reason. She got back on after a year but her natural if somewhat low production came back. And she's 73. It's not like it drys up your thyroid gland and it blows away.
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  #41  
Old 09-13-2016, 09:53 PM
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In my experience it shuts down natural production but it comes back fast for me. I do a two week on two week off system though.
I was on 25m of T3 for almost a year.
Bounced back quickly.
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  #42  
Old 09-13-2016, 10:35 PM
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I should warn that perhaps not everyone will bounce back as fast.
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  #43  
Old 09-14-2016, 06:51 AM
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I was on 25m of T3 for almost a year.
Bounced back quickly.
Same here. Came back fine after a about a year. I did notice when I stopped using it I was fuller and put on muscle easier but it was tougher to get lean
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  #44  
Old 09-14-2016, 10:46 AM
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Same here. Came back fine after a about a year. I did notice when I stopped using it I was fuller and put on muscle easier but it was tougher to get lean
I never get lean so it just made me less fat

I never really planned to stay on for that long.
I started to use it with GH and just continued for a while.
Then vacation was coming up, so it was extended.
Think I had blood for a month or two after I came off and levels was in normal rank.
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  #45  
Old 09-14-2016, 10:49 AM
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I should warn that perhaps not everyone will bounce back as fast.
Right on.
Just because some bounce back fast does not mean everybody will.

Your warning applies to everything......
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  #46  
Old 09-14-2016, 09:43 PM
NLG34 NLG34 is offline
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Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1981 Apr;96(4):475-9.

The effect of growth hormone on the plasma levels of T4, free-T4, T3, reverse T3 an TBG in hypopituitary patients.

Gács G, Bános C.


Abstract


The plasma concentrations of thyroxine (T4), free thyroxine (free-T4), triiodothyronine (T3), reverse triiodothyronine (rT3), TSH and thyroxine-binding globulin (TBG) were measured in 19 children suffering from idiopathic growth hormone deficiency. Blood was taken before and one month after growth hormone treatment. Ten patients were hypothyroid (group 1) and 9 were euthyroid (group 2). The basal T3 and rT3 levels correlated well with the T4 concentrations. Free-T4 levels were very low in all the hypothyroid patients and proved to be the most reliable index of TSH deficiency. TBG concentration was high in th hypopituitary patients regardless of their thyroid function. Following growth hormone treatment T4, free-T4 and rT3 levels fell in both groups. The T3 concentration rose in group 1 but no change was seen in group 2. There was a significant correlation between the changes of T4 and T3, such that the increase in T3 level was greatest in those with only a slight reduction of T4 concentration and no T3 increase was seen with more marked T4 decreases. The plasma TBG concentration is enhanced in growth hormone deficiency causing relatively high T4 values. Growth hormone treatment reduces T4 secretion and affects the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones resulting in an increase of T3 and a reduction of rT3 concentration.


PMID: 6782790 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Effect of thyroid hormone and growth hormone on recovery from hypothyroidism of epiphyseal growth plate cartilage and its adjacent bone.

Lewinson D, Harel Z, Shenzer P, Silbermann M, Hochberg Z.


Source

Laboratory of Musculoskeletal Research, Rappaport Family Institute for Research in the Medical Sciences, Technion-Israel Institute of Technology, Haifa.


Abstract


Hypothyroidism was induced in young female Sprague-Dawley rats by the addition of methimazole (0.67 mg/ml) to drinking water for a period of 7 weeks (7-14 weeks of age). The responses of the articular cartilage, epiphyseal growth plate cartilage, epiphyseal trabecular bone, and metaphyseal trabecular bone in the proximal tibia were assessed by structural parameters. In addition, replacement therapies were introduced for the last 2 weeks of the experimental period. These included 0.7 U/kg BW human GH (hGH), 15 micrograms/kg BW L-T4 (T4), and a combination of hGH and T4 at the same doses. In the hypothyroid rats, the width of epiphyseal growth plate cartilage decreased by 27%, that of articular cartilage by 35%, epiphyseal trabecular bone volume by 30%, and metaphyseal trabecular bone volume by 66% relative to those in age-matched control tissues. T4 treatment led to a full restoration of the epiphyseal trabecular bone and surpassed by 40% the control value. The magnitude of the articular cartilage and the epiphyseal trabecular bone volume returned to control values, while that of metaphyseal trabecular bone was 68% of control values. Treatment with hGH did not improve the epiphyseal growth plate cartilage or articular cartilage. It did restore epiphyseal trabecular bone to almost normal values, but metaphyseal trabecular bone improved to only a small though significant level (45% of control value). The combination of T4 and hGH resulted in an additional enlargement in the width of the epiphyseal growth plate cartilage and an increase in metaphyseal trabecular bone volume compared to those in the T4 group. Qualitative examinations indicated that it was only in the T4 and T4 plus hGH groups that the lowest chondrocytes in the epiphyseal growth plate cartilage resumed their normal hypertrophied size. These results suggest that the change in the hypothyroid state do not rely solely on the lack of pituitary GH synthesis and secretion, as replacement by exogenous GH did not restore normal epiphyseal growth plate cartilage morphology or its remodeling into metaphyseal trabecular bone. Treatment with T4 (which restored endogenous pituitary GH to 30% of control levels) results in full recovery of the epiphyseal growth plate cartilage morphology along with its associated metaphyseal trabecular bone. In addition, it can also be concluded that the decrease in epiphyseal trabecular bone volume observed in the hypothyroid animals was due solely to the GH-deficient state that accompanied hypothyroidism.


PMID: 2912707 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
The first study is irrevelent to us. It only explains how hypothyrism can somewhat be corrected with gh supplementation- higher t3 output, lower reverse t3. That's great, but what does increasing either t3, t4 do for those using gh??? That's where I'm lost.

In fact it looks like t4 is not needed at all with exogenous gh, since your getting greater conversion of t3 while lower bad reverse t3.
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  #47  
Old 09-14-2016, 10:18 PM
chriswhat chriswhat is offline
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The first study is irrevelent to us. It only explains how hypothyrism can somewhat be corrected with gh supplementation- higher t3 output, lower reverse t3. That's great, but what does increasing either t3, t4 do for those using gh??? That's where I'm lost.

In fact it looks like t4 is not needed at all with exogenous gh, since your getting greater conversion of t3 while lower bad reverse t3.
I guess you and I just understand the first study differently. But regardless I know that for me I can gain more muscle and lose fat on HGH ,T4, and Anabolics. On t3 I lose muscle. But everyone is different.
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  #48  
Old 01-12-2017, 02:24 AM
Anabolic Freak Anabolic Freak is offline
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You are so naive... Did I say there is a article that a particularly towards rats taking hgh on cycle with t3 and t4 no I said the conversion of drug doses is different when comparing rats to humans... But I'm sure you'll see the hundreds of articles and claim there not credible because God him self did not post them. You are verynargumentive so I will just say your right, and everything you say is right as well. I bet your a ripped lean monster
Lol
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  #49  
Old 02-15-2017, 03:59 PM
eddiebos1 eddiebos1 is offline
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If you guys workout like you do research then you must be Fat fucks!! Just my.02. Ohhh- btw go and spend your hard earned dollars on T3 and when it aint doing shit for you then maybe you'll do your homework. Some people should stay clear away from these things.
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  #50  
Old 02-16-2017, 12:34 AM
Sasquatchhunter Sasquatchhunter is offline
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I guess you and I just understand the first study differently. But regardless I know that for me I can gain more muscle and lose fat on HGH ,T4, and Anabolics. On t3 I lose muscle. But everyone is different.
While this a super old thread, I'll post it even Tren is anabolic enough to handle a higher dose of T3. T3 used sparingly and maybe precontest is great. But T3 is sooo catabolic. I've read T4 and GH mix well. But T4 if you are
Low naturally is good. I haven't played enough with T4 to know for sure, but T3 killed
My gains and made me flat
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